The Alarm have reached a reflective stage and Mike Peters, while condemning r'n'r tunnel vision' speaks with the charge of optimism he/they have scarcely ever been short of. Currently they're poised between their different single 'The Chant' ("a massive monster drum sound with loads of guitars slammed over the top"), and an LP for ease next year which promises to deliver everything that their first, 'Declaration', didn't.

Mike: "On 'Declaration' there's brilliant moments and also bits that we probably wouldn't do again. There's a lot of songs that shouldn't have been put on. People say it's like a greatest hits album. At the time we'd released seven songs on the b-sides of singles and I'd wish we'd put some of those b-sides on. We just threw away 'What Kind Of Hell'. We left it with someone else to mix and were very disappointed but it was too late. That was us paying the price of cooking up a gruelling touring schedule. I think if we'd put on 'Pavilion Steps' and 'Reason 41' it wouldn't have got so much of the 'anthemic' stuff aimed at it.

"We used images of spiritual battle, keeping up your drive and adrenaline by knowing that you were better than the world was making you out to be. With the new album we're trying to involve real images that you can actually touch and see not just things which are ideas and dreams.

"When you're in a band you're always pointing the finger at someone, the government or whoever. But sometimes we're just as much to blame because we give people an incentive and sometimes we haven't got the right to give them that incentive. Sometimes we're a bit blind to what's going on because we are only human.

"We get so caught up in asking people to be like this or like that but sometimes people just want music and a good time. So I wrote a song, 'Majority', shall I recite it? (Mike sings song into my Sony) '... that pointed the finger at us, that makes us think about what we are and the position we're in.' "

Meanwhile, pointing a finger at the state of the British pop scene; Culture Club, Wham!, Marilyn, Frankie...

"Pop has become such a commodity, it's on the front page of The Sun. There doesn't seem to be anybody concerned with building a career, everyone's going for it all the time. I think it's all going to blow up in their face."

But are the records of worth?

"Boy George writes some great songs in terms of melodic structure and the chord changes. I don't go along with the way they're portrayed or produced or the way the lyrics are written. Some Culture Club songs could be Alarm songs with different lyrics.

"I don't really think any of them make anything amazing except Frankie. I thought 'Two Tribes' could be the most important protest song since 'The Times They Are A Changing' but they seemed to take the mick out of it and devalued it a bit."

Do you wish you had their degree of success?

"Yes. Everyone wants a number one record. I think you can have number one records without compromising. Weller proved that with The Jam. They were as big as Duran Duran without losing the respect of people. It took Weller a long time to achieve that and we've done brilliantly on one album. It's taken us around the world and established us in nearly every place where they buy records.

"But a lot of fans don't want to see a group having number ones and selling out gigs. There's a lot of elitism in fans – I'm guilty of it myself. For The Alarm, if you've got 'Unsafe Building' you've got one over on everybody else. That's part of pop music. But there's a lot of negativity in British music at the moment and it stems from 1977 punk rock. Groups establish themselves by saying what they're not going to do rather than what they are going to do – 'We're not going to sell-out, go commercial, play seated venues'.

"We get tied-in with the ideals other bands have set for themselves. Because we always got compared to the Clash, a lot of people held their idealism to us. Music should speak for itself, seated venues are nothing to be afraid of."

Mike talks of U2 and their decision to play at Wembley rather than continuing the rounds of Palais and Lyceum ventures. Seeing this as a move to ward off stagnation and, most of all, providing a challenge.

"They've got to make it a brilliant gig and that's what keeps a band alive, facing, and winning challenges. People here have got caught up in hipness and credibility and what a band can and can't do and that upset their enjoyment of the music.

"When punk rock started it was a massive buzz and everyone was going to change the world and do something. Now I think people have grown up and realised that you've got to survive. Survival tactics are abundant.

"I'm 25 now and when punk started I was 17. We've seen an awful lot of things come and go and it's time to face up to the new realities. People still cling to the spirit of '77. We would get linked with U2 and Big Country but we're all on our own now and young people are on their own. There's no linking factor anymore, no punk rock, it's all gone.

"A lot of people at gigs seem battered. Battered by recession and wearing the colours of it. Britain is such a scruffy place now. The cities look worn out, the people look worn out, people of our age have been fighting this battle with the world since 1977. It's time to re-analyse things and not get hung up on things that don't count anymore.

"I want The Alarm to reach more people. A lot haven't got the time to think about what we asked them to think about on 'Declaration', politics and all that, They're fighting to keep their chins up."

A key word in the Alarm's immediate future may be simplification. Mike recalls writing songs in the early days "and trying to cram everything in, blurring what was there". Now there is a greater quest for the nitty gritty, an aiming at the heart of the matter. Mike recognises a change from the (somewhat half-assed) polemics.

"I came to the realisation of writing about what I knew about rather than what I didn't know about. Like me, a lot of people aren't that educated in politics, I know as much as the man on the street. But I do know about friendship and growing up and our music could work in people's everyday lives. There are a lot of 17 and 18 year olds who follow the band and hopefully we'll pass things on to them that I've learnt.

"The thrill of it all is that I might be a big part in the life of someone I've never met. They might be playing the records all the time. Some might like us purely for entertainment but some go completely into depth with it."

You enjoy being part of an unknown in someone's life?

'It's a fantastic feeling. Everyone wants to be wanted and I've found it a few thousand times. I just hope it won't be spoilt by little things because I'm a human being and I'm going to make mistakes and tread on people's toes. One day I might even make a bad record!

"The hardest thing is to open yourself up to people that you don't know and let your feelings flood out. Even in an interview you want to be open but you haven't got the confidence to let things out. A tot of the time you tend to philosophize and relate things by anecdotes rather than saying 'I feel this way because...'

"I suppose there's a lot of compromise in everybody's life as you're always quick to point out the compromise in everyone else's life but never want to point out your own because they make you feel you've failed. Feeling better by pointing out someone else's failures is a sad thing.

"Musically, bands always go on about other bands failings. In The Alarm we've had to compromise an awful lot. We owe a lot of our success to luck. Our first TOTP appearance was due to Public Image cancelling.

"Just from a records point of view, sometimes you can't quite get what you want and it's too late to change it because you've got a deadline. Or you can't quite provide the service you want because there's not enough money. in The Alarm we have a tight budget, we don't like to borrow money, it's run on a shoestring... and maybe some people get ripped off in that way... I dunno...

"I want to endeavour in The Alarm to let it all out eventually, everything I feel. That way people respect you rather than if you come on as if you've got all the answers and know it all. I don't! I have as much to learn as everybody else. I don't want to get upset over The Alarm and I don't want our fans to get upset over The Alarm. I don't think the band is worth as much as that relationship.

"Being in The Alarm now is more exciting than it's ever been. We're playing new songs for the first time in two years. To us it's like being born again musically. We're going berserk and writing like mad.

"We've detached ourselves from that rock and roll tunnel vision and gained a different perspective. We're drawing on our own strengths. It is The Alarm with our own identity and stance and musical style or non-style. It's just the chords and the lyrical content that moves people."

For new LP purposes, The Alarm are maintaining producer Alan Shacklock plus a new engineer with whom "there's more whack in the sound, it's tougher, more exciting.

"There'll be no preconceptions with our new album. Not loads, of different versions of songs floating around. A fresh slab of stone straight bang on the table – and do you like it or don't you?"